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Spain continues vendetta against ETA in Cuba, Venezuela and N. Ireland
Patrick J. O'DonoghueSpain refuses to let go of laptop accusations against the Basque ETA armed group and Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and alleged Venezuelan connivance and collaboration.
What is clearly emerging is that Spain wants Venezuela and Cuba to hand over ETA members residing in their countries.
Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos has announced that the writ against ETA and FARC members allegedly plotting to kill Colombian presidents in Spain has been sent to Cuba and Venezuela via the Spanish ambassadors, who have been given the task of ensuring the collaboration of both countries in hunting down ETA.
In Cuba the main target is Jose Angel Urtiaga Martinez whom 15-minutes-of-fame Spanish Judge Velasco claims is ETA's representative to the FARC. Another is alleged second in command, Jose Miguel Arrugaeta San Emeterio. Both men are charged with relaying explosives training.
Moratinos has declared that the Spanish executive is acting in full cooperation with the autonomous legislative power and Congress. All three institutions have clubbed together on this one.
Yesterday, Moratinos took off his government's mask, saying Chavez has "collaborated in extraditions and has demonstrated his disposition to accompany the Spanish government's efforts to eradicate, combat and defeat ETA."
Meanwhile, Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere affairs, Chilean-born Arturo Valenzuela has tuned into the Spanish-Colombian campaign against Venezuela and rebel organizations, declaring that Venezuela has given "some assistance" to the FARC who are receiving specific types of help from different groups.
Spain, Colombia and the USA will be attending the inauguration of right-wing crusader, Chilean President Sebastian Pinera, who has made a great fuss inviting Venezuelan opposition leader, Antonio Ledezma to the event.
President Chavez said he will not be attending the inauguration but his name will be top of the agenda in corridor meetings.
Update: a "Don't Extradite the Basques" campaign has been set up in Northern Ireland against the British government's decision to allow the extradition of former ETA prisoner and hunger-striker, Inaki de Juana, who has been living in the North for the last two years.
The Sinn Fein party is organizing the campaign and the party's euro-deputy, Bairbre de Brun said Inaki was being pursued for his political ideas and extradition to Spain should be dropped.
De Brun argued that both the British and Spanish governments are ignoring important political initiatives in the Basque Country to resolve the conflict.
De Juana spent 21 years in a Spanish jail, of which 17 years were in solitary confinement.
Last year an ad hoc committee in Venezuela succeeded in stopping the extradition of another ETA member.
Basques exonerated in decimation of Canadian whale population
Randy Boswell
In an impressive case of CSI-style sleuthing, researchers examining a single, 450-year-old whale bone from Labrador's south coast have exonerated the prime suspect in a whodunit from the dawn of Canadian history.The DNA profile of a North Atlantic right whale's humerus — collected from the remains of a shipwreck at the historic Red Bay whaling site along the Strait of Belle Isle — shows that Canada's most endangered species was already suffering from a critically small population and a lack of genetic diversity before Basque whalers began harvesting the giant mammals in the 16th century.
The Basques have long been blamed for decimating the right whale population off Canada's coast. But the new research by a team of Canadian and U.S. biologists, published in the latest issue of the journal Conservation Genetics, indicates that right whales were rarely killed by the Spanish-based whalers and that oil-rich bowhead whales were almost exclusively their targeted species.
The first key finding in the centuries-old cold case was that only one right whale bone could be found among 218 specimens collected from historic East Coast whaling sites, meaning the bowhead was clearly the Basques' prime quarry.
Then, led by Trent University researcher Brenna McLeod, the team compared key genetic markers in the ancient right whale bone with those of present-day right whales — and found no significant differences.
The samples revealed a relatively low level of genetic diversity among the whale's North Atlantic population both today and in the past — a result that makes clear the species' problems in Atlantic Canada began long before the Basques arrived in the region in the early 1500s, the team has concluded.
The findings "are not consistent with the suggestion that Basque whaling activities were responsible for what was previously thought to be the largest reduction of the right whale population," the researchers state.
The results also indicate that "the major decline in this species occurred prior to whaling and that the pre-Basque population of right whales in the western North Atlantic was much smaller than has been assumed."
Today, scientists believe there are only about 350 North Atlantic right whales migrating annually between waters south of Nova Scotia — where they spend much of the summer and fall feeding and breeding — and Florida, where calves are typically born in late winter or spring.
The right whale can grow up to 18 metres in length, weigh more than 100 tonnes and live as long as 70 years.
Right whale advocates — including the new study's Canadian co-author, Moira Brown of Boston's New England Aquarium — have successfully lobbied for various fishing and shipping regulations aimed at protecting the highly endangered species.
But the latest findings, which the authors claim have "rewritten the history of the species," appear to point the finger at a post-1400 cooling period known as the Little Ice Age for the historically restricted numbers of North Atlantic right whales along Canada's eastern shores.
"Our research suggests that some of the factors (such as low levels of genetic variation) that may be limiting right whale recovery in the western North Atlantic have been present for far longer than we had thought," McLeod told Canwest News Service on Friday.
She added that the more scientists can learn about the right whale's history "the better we can understand how those factors are playing a role in the patterns and process of recovery in the species today."
The researchers note that while bowhead whales were the key Canadian target for Basque whalers, historic harvests of right whales throughout the broader North Atlantic world have decimated some populations.
In fact, the animal was named the "right" whale to target for easy hunting because it swims slowly and near the surface, typically stays close to the coast and conveniently floats to the top when harpooned.
In the decades following the New World discoveries of Christopher Columbus and John Cabot, the expert shipbuilders, sailors, fishermen and whalers from the Basque country bordering modern-day France and Spain had begun making transatlantic voyages to exploit coastal Canada's whale populations.
Lamp oil rendered from whales killed in the Strait of Belle Isle became the key commodity for the Basque entrepreneurs, who developed shoreline "factories" that produced thousands of barrels of oil and organized regular shipping schedules between Canada and Europe to deliver the product.
Although the presence of Basque whalers in 16th-century Canada was long known to historians, it wasn't until federal archivist Selma Barkham presented fresh evidence at an Ottawa archeological conference in 1977 that plans were made to search for physical traces of Basque activities in modern Labrador.
In 1978, a Parks Canada-led team of researchers discovered the sunken remains of a 1560s-era, three-masted whaling vessel.
Other major finds followed the discovery of the 20-metre San Juan, including three other "galleon"-class transport ships and a well-preserved "chalupa" rowboat used by whale-hunting crews in their deadly chase.
Land-based excavations yielded burial sites, clothing and countless other relics, including hundreds of whale bones.
Thousands of people marched through the Basque city of Bilbao on Saturday to demand that rights for the Basque political prisoners are respected by both Madrid and Paris. The protest was called by leftist Basque nationalist groups, including Etxerat, an association of family members of political prisoners which accuses the governments of Spain and France of punishing relatives and friends by holding the political prisoners in prisons far away from their homes.Trial against Basque language newspaper Egunkaria beginsOn 3rd February 2003, the Spanish police ordered the definitive closure of Euskaldunon Egunkaria, the only daily newspaper published in the Basque language. This was followed by the arrest of ten people. All of them were well known and respected Basque language and culture activists, journalists and writers. One of them is a Jesuit brother.
They were held incommunicado for five days under the anti-terrorist law. Some of them were imprisoned and others later released. One of them, the newspaper’s director, told journalists at the prison gates he had been savagely tortured. His words and his shattered appearance shocked Basque society.
The operation was ordered by the Spanish National Court on the grounds that Egunkaria allegedly formed part of a wider group of businesses and organisations controlled by ETA – the old “all is ETA” motto.
Immediately after the closure hundreds of protests took place across the Basque Country, including what was probably the largest demonstration ever to take place in the country two days after the closure.
Nearly four years later on 15th December 2006, the National Court Prosecutor determined that there were no grounds for the case and requested a stay of proceedings.
Despite this, six months later a court hearing was officially announced.
In the hearing it was concluded that only five of those arrested would finally go to trial: Joan Mari Torrealdai, ex-President of the administrative council of Egunkaria; Iñaki Uria, ex-Managing Director; Txema Auzmendi, former Administrative Council Secretary; Martxelo Otamendi, ex-Director; and Xabier Oleaga, former deputy director.
The trial begun yesterday Tuesday 15th in Madrid, with the accused facing sentences of between 12 and 14 years in prison, in addition to a further 14 to 15-year ban from practicing journalism. For the last months many support events have been organised and the presence of the leaders of the majority of Basque political parties and trade unions and education, culture and language movements’ representatives at the gates of the Spanish National Court yesterday was proof of the broad support they have in Basque society.
The hearing began with the testimonies of the accused who stated the newspaper was created by the Basque language grass roots movement to fill the crucial vacuum of a newspaper written in the national language and without any intervention by ETA.
They also told the court how they had been subjected to torture while detained incommunicado but the judges ordered them not to talk about this.
Aside from the accusations that form the basis of Tuesday's trial, there are further charges of attempting to falsify accounts and defraud the Treasury, of which eight defendants stand accused.
They could face up to between 13 and 26 years in prison and possible fines of between 21 and 33 million euro. The date for this trial is yet to be announced.
Terrorism trial hits home for Boise Basques
Katy MoellerBOISE, Idaho — A terrorism trial on another continent is hitting close to home for some Boiseans.
A journalist familiar to many in the Treasure Valley's large Basque-American community is one of five former employees of a Basque-language daily newspaper scheduled to go on trial Tuesday in Spain.
Martxelo Otamendi and the others from the paper Euskaldunon Egunkaria will be tried in Spanish National Criminal Court, which is where cases of alleged terrorism are handled.
Some Boise-area Basques say they believe Otamendi's only crime is being a vocal Basque nationalist - not a member of the terrorist group Euskadi Ta Askatasuna - which means "Basque Homeland and Freedom" and is known as ETA.
Many thought the question had been resolved in Otamendi's favor.
The trial comes more than six years after Otamendi and the others were charged and after a major shift to the left in Spanish government.
"I have real concerns that it came out of a time that was known to be repressive," Boise Mayor Dave Bieter said. "Why are they prosecuting years away from any of the accusations? ... If the case were strong, he'd have been prosecuted a lot sooner than this."
The public prosecutor in Spain opted not to pursue the case. But in the Spanish legal system there is also a private prosecutor who takes part in criminal procedures as a victim. The private prosecutor is taking the case to trial.
Otamendi has developed friendships in Boise over the past two decades, during which he has visited three times.
His first visit came in 1989, when he came to work on a two-month project with a local TV station.
He returned to Boise in 2005 for Jaialdi, a national Basque festival that's held every five years and attracts Basques from all over the world.
In 2002, Otamendi stayed at Bieter's house while he was in Boise covering the Idaho Legislature's memorial supporting self-determination for the Basques of northern Spain and southern France.
"He stayed in a room over our garage, not exactly luxury accommodations. I can't really recall how it came about," said Bieter, who at that time was a state representative in the Legislature.
Bieter said he and others were surprised that a nonbinding joint memorial by the Idaho Legislature would become an international news event.
"Somehow (Otamendi) saw that as news before anybody else really did," Bieter said. "Then it really did become news. AP picked it up. The Spanish ambassador threw a fit."
It even attracted the attention of President George W. Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice.
Otamendi spent a week to 10 days interviewing members of the Idaho Legislature, including Bieter and Pete Cenarrusa, a Basque-American and former longtime Idaho secretary of state.
About 15,000 Basques live in Idaho, making it one of the largest Basque populations in the world outside the Basque Country.
Bieter's father was a professor at Boise State University. His family lived in the Basque Country for a time while dictator Francisco Franco was still in power. During a visit during early 2001 or 2002, Bieter was surprised by what he saw.
"It had become repressive again. I saw a lot of instances of that," Bieter said. "The Guardia Civil, an arm of the government, the submarine gun and jackboot guys were all around again. They came down real hard on demonstrations in the cities in the Basque Country. ... They were rounding up big groups of people."
On Feb. 20, 2003, Judge Juan del Olmo of the National Court of Spain shut down Egunkaria, the only daily newspaper published in the Basque language and dedicated to the lives, politics and culture of the Euskaldunak, or Basque people.
To Basques, journalists and human rights advocates around the world, the shutdown of the newspaper appeared heavy-handed.
"There is a freedom of the press issue that's really concerning," Bieter said.
Another Basque newspaper, Egin, was closed in 1998 under similar circumstances, with journalists accused of colluding with ETA. At least one journalist there was convicted, but earlier this year, more than 10 years after the "precautionary closure" of Egin, the case against the paper was dismissed.
"They could reopen it now, but the damage they have caused to the freedom of press cannot be healed at all," said Alberto Santana Ezkerra, director of Basque studies at Boise State University.
Paddy Woodworth, a former reporter for the Irish Times newspaper and author of "The Basque Country: A Cultural History," agrees.
"I believe that if there are serious charges against a medium of communication, sufficient to justify the precautionary measure of closing it down, they should be heard within weeks, not years," he said. "Otherwise the state is very open to charges of suppressing press freedom."
Last year, after Egunkaria had been closed five years, the group Reporters Without Borders called on Spain to drop the years-long prosecution.
"The alleged links between certain members of Egunkaria's staff and ETA have never been demonstrated, despite five years of judicial investigation," the press freedom group said. "The Spanish government's fight against terrorism is legitimate, but it must be done without violating free expression."
Spain's approach to that fight is an important part of the story, Woodworth and other experts said.
"The background is important," Woodworth said. "An anti-terrorist strategy from Madrid ... says that everything and everybody who shares any of ETA's aspirations is in reality a member of ETA, a very dangerous and undemocratic doctrine."
The policy begun under the conservative Partido Popular has been continued under the socialist worker's party, Partido Socialista Obrero Espanol, he said.
Journalists at Egunkaria were suspected by Spanish authorities of receiving both financing and direction from the armed Basque separatist group.
Otamendi vehemently denies the charge. After his arrest in 2003, he told the Idaho Statesman that he was tortured by the Spanish Guardia Civil during a five-day interrogation. He was released on $30,000 bond.
Basques angry about the loss of their paper pooled their money and opened the newspaper Egunero immediately after Egunkaria was closed. Four months later, the larger daily newspaper, Berria, was launched, with Otamendi serving as its editor.
Santana Ezkerra, the BSU professor, is among those in the Boise area who are keenly interested in the fate of Otamendi and his former co-workers at Egunkaria.
Santana is originally from the Basque Country. He said the terrorist group ETA turns 50 this year.
"They are weaker than ever, both in terms of popular support and in military terms," Santana said.
He said there are many reasons for the weakening of support for ETA among Basques, including a new generation that doesn't remember Franco and a population that is wealthier and less interested in conflicts with the Spanish government than in the past.
"ETA is dying," said Xabier Irujo Ametzaga, a professor of Basque politics at the University of Nevada, Reno. "The biggest part of Basque society is against the use of violence."
Santana has met Otamendi at cultural events, but doesn't know him personally. Still, he feels strongly that Otamendi is not a terrorist.
"I'm sure that he's not a member of ETA," Santana said. "He's a journalist. If he wanted to be a member of ETA, he could easily get a machine gun. His weapons are paper and printer."
"His editorials were not supporting ETA," said Santana, who was a regular reader of Egunkaria.
Santana and others say the shuttering of the only daily Basque-language newspaper was a huge blow. More than 3,000 people pitched in money to open Berria. It's available online.
"The Basque language is the main pillar of the Basque culture. It is a very important issue for everyone in the Basque Country," Irujo said.
'Olentzero badator', Basque myth gets modern makeover
O.M.Beñat Amorena (born in Saint-Etienne-de-Baigorry, Iparralde) is the creator of Olentzero badator (Olentzero is coming), a piece of modern street theatre due to perform on 20th December on the streets on Bayonne. A total of 50 actors interpret the show, a contemporary take on the pagan mythological tale of Olentzero, the coal man who, according to Basque tradition, hands out gifts to children at Christmas.
The composer
Born in a mill in Baigorry fifty-nine years ago, at the age of 20 Amorena moved to Paris to study music. Five years later he returned to the Basque Country where he joined the group Errobi in 1975, together with Anje Duhalde, Mixel Ducau and Michel Halty. He now teaches percussion at the conservatory of music in Les Landes, southern France.
Creator of shows
Though he has written and performed music all his life, Amorena only began composing whole shows a while ago; Olenztero Badator is his third, following Jotakurri in 2002, which he created for the Errobi de Itsasu festival, and Ufaka Zanpaka for the festival of Hartzaro de Uztaritz, together with the Burrunka and Izartxo companies. For his latest show he has once again joined up with Burrunka as well as choreographer Mizel Theret. Six professional dancers are also involved.
'Olentzero Badator'; mythology-based street theatre
Amorena's version of the mythological character starts with an ancient idea that Olentzero would come back to announce the sun-rise. From this, Amorena invented a story in which the Sun abandons the Earth, leaving the people in cold and darkness. To save the planet, Olentzero travels to the galaxies in search of the Sun.
Fifty people take part in the show, playing a mixture of earthlings, extraterrestrials and fantastic and medieval characters, all of whom parade along the streets of Bayonne. Amorena and his team have spent a whole year preparing the show, battling with light and darkness. Since September he has been accompanied by a painter, ironmonger, - very importantly - lighting and sound technicians as well as 15 percussionists from Burrunka and nine pipers directed by Pierre Haira, not to mention the six dancers under the direction of Mizel Theret.
On 20th December from 6pm onwards, Olentzero Badator will take to the streets of Bayonne, parading in four different areas (Cinq-Cantons square, Orbe karrika, Liberté Square y Megadenda) all ending up in the market place where they will perform a final mark of respect to the Sun.
(NB: In case of bad weather, the show will be put back to 21st December).
50,000 years of culture in kitchen
Dereck FosterThe area that comprises the south-east corner of the Bay of Biscay is that which, invading a small portion of France and a larger portion of Spain, is where Basque culture and cuisine flourishes with all its traditional originality and flavour. Within the many varied regional cuisines that can be detected within Europe, that of the Basque country is an important leader. According to María José Sevilla, a food historian, who has analysed Basque culture in depth , this can be traced back at least 50,000 years and has, in its essence, undergone only cosmetic changes imposed by the advent of modern techniques and modernised ingredients.
What is the basic character of Basque cuisine? The Basque nation has always been dominated by the sea, and Basques have been notable seafarers. As a result the true flavour of Basque food leans strongly towards the sea. It is no secret that tuna and cod are important ingredients that figure in many traditional Basque recipes. Who visits a Basque restaurant does so — unless totally ignorant of the theme — expecting to discover a menu strongly imbued with fish and seafood. But we must not forget the importance that roast lamb, fungi and dried pulses also enjoy within a Basque menu.
Basques, true to their naval traditions, are great travellers, frequently emigrating — because of mostly political reasons — and setting up important colonies abroad. It is only normal that, deep in their baggage, they pack their gastronomic traditions. Argentina is no exception. We have a large and active Basque colony, larded with a great number of restaurants and food outlets with a Basque origin. As is the case with many styles of cooking, exporting to different climes is not easy. Rarely does food in different climes resemble exactly that of the original. Basque cuisine is no exception, but in spite of this we do enjoy a high level of Basque restaurants in Buenos Aires and the rest of Argentina. One of them is, without discussion, Sagardi (Humberto Primo 319, 4361-2538), nestling in the very heart of San Telmo.
Professor Translates Popular Basque Tome to English
Erin Ryan
Visiting assistant professor Nere Lete in the Department of Modern Languages and Literatures recently translated internationally acclaimed author Bernardo Atxaga’s “Two Basque Stories” into English. The book, separated into two moving novellas, examines traditional and contemporary Basque culture, the lessons of family, the elegance of ordinary things and the challenge of living in two worlds. The paperback translation was published recently by the Center for Basque Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno.
Lete received her B.A. in Basque philology from Spain’s University of Deusto and her MFA in translation from the University of Iowa. While Basque is her “mother tongue,” she also is a native Spanish speaker, is fluent in English and studied French for many years. As an educator, she has held positions in the Basque Country at the Renteria Municipal Basque Language School and in the U.S. at the University of Nevada, Reno, University of Iowa and Boise State, where she has taught on and off since 1993 and now directs the Basque minor program.
Lete’s connection to Bernardo Atxaga began many years ago in his kitchen in the Basque Country.
“That day I went to ask his permission to translate this work as part of my master’s thesis. I thought it would take 10 minutes to get the yes or the no, but he was very welcoming, and I stayed for a couple hours chatting with him,” Lete said. “I was star-struck. He is the first Basque writer awarded the Spanish National Prize in Narrative for his novel, ‘Obabakoak,’ which has been translated into 25 languages — quite an achievement for any writer.”
The setting for “Two Basque Stories” is Boise, where Atxaga’s main character Old Martin lives. An 80-year-old Basque sheepherder, Old Martin receives two letters from the old country that stir his memory, making him reflect on what seem like separate lives.
“Old Martin is a Basque man, but his story encompasses the universal emigrant mentality that all of us who live away from our home countries relate to internally,” Lete said, adding that her thesis work on location in Boise allowed her to hear the stories of many “Old Martins” at the local Basque Museum and Cultural Center.
While most literature translated from Basque first is translated to Spanish, Lete skipped the middleman, interpreting Atxaga’s words directly.
“It is like getting a cup of tea made out of the first brewing, full of flavor,” she said, admitting that capturing the essence of another person’s writing is a serious challenge that requires maintaining the integrity of the original work and managing multiple languages and literary traditions. “If we accept as true the Latin aphorism, traductore traditore, meaning that the translator is a traitor to the original work, then any effort to convey a work in another language is doomed from the very beginning, and I don’t accept that. Translation opens a window to an author’s world that otherwise would be closed tight to anyone who didn’t speak the language of the original.”
Currently, Lete is collaborating with Boise’s Basque Museum and Cultural Center on the creation of an exhibit for the Ellis Island Immigration Museum titled, “Hidden in Plain Sight: The Basques.” The exhibit will show the journey Basques took to come to the United States and particularly the American West.
To learn more about the English translation of “Two Basque Stories,” visit this link.
'Gardeners of Identity' pays homage to Basques in San Francisco
O.M.A book that brings together the accounts of Basque immigrants living in California's San Francisco Bay, written by doctor of Basque Studies and current researcher at the University of Deusto, Pedro J. Oiarzabal, with material compiled by members of the city's Basque-American community, will be one of the newest publications to feature at this year's Book and CD Fair in Durango (Biscay), starting on Friday 4th December.
Entitled Gardeners of Identity: Basques in the San Francisco Bay Area and written in English, the book pays homage to those members of the Basque-American community who made it possible, more than a century after the first waves of mass immigration from the Basque Country began arriving to the United States, for Basque culture and identity to continue to be a reality in the San Francisco Bay area of today.
"I tried to reflect who these people are; normal, everyday people who don't need an academic background, or to be specialists or linguists in order to appreciate what culture is and their own cultural legacy," explained Pedro J. Oiarzabal in an exclusive interview with eitb.com in Bilbao.
"People born in farmhouses with a minimum level of school education who had to work hard in order to survive in a foreign country where the language is neither Spanish, French nor, of course, Basque and where they may have achieved a certain level of success in life while at the same time struggling hard to maintain their culture and language," Pedro says of the people who feature in his book.
The book is also of great historical value visually, bringing together as many as 123 photographic documents, much more than any other book of the same length. "In this book I've tried to give particular significance to photographic evidence in itself. It is important to be able to see the evolution of this community in terms of its style of dress, clothing, and other symbols which represent the world we live in," explains Pedro.
A seed
The creation process behind the book involved actual members of the Basque-American community, who were responsible for carrying out 93 interviews and organizing the compilation of visual material.
According to the author, his objective was not only to gather together witness accounts, but also to ensure that the community itself was central to the book; that the book's creation was the seed to make the Basque-Americans realize their own abilities to carry out such a project.
"You don't need a history degree per se to make history. A good methodology plus training in specific techniques for (compiling) oral history would make it easier for all those Basques living elsewhere to document and conserve their own immediate history. The importance of compiling firsthand accounts of emigrants from the 1930s or 1940s is invaluable, as well as a race against time, which we must try to win," explained Oiarzabal. "The communities themselves are in the best position to carry out such tasks.
"We hope this marks just a beginning; that the Basque community now continues to take care of its own history," he added.
Mirror
For Pedro, the Basque migratory experience during the diaspora can help modern-day Basques to understand why immigrants of other nationalities settle in our lands and work so hard at jobs that these days nobody wants to do.
In the same way, discovering how Basques were received in the various countries to which they emigrated helps us in turn to understand immigrant cultures, try and integrate them with our own and enrich ourselves through their experiences.
According to Pedro, Basques have always known how to convey very well - though without ever imposing - the importance of their own culture to those countries in which they have settled. "What we can do, in return, is try to learn from those that come to our land and try to combine their culture with ours. I think that we could all learn a lot from that," he concludes.